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Aedes Divi Iulii: Julius Caesar and His Times
For discussion of the life of Gaius Julius Caesar, 100-44 BC, and Rome in his time.

Caesar's Contemporaries (8 threads, 728 posts)
    Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC (148 posts)
    Historical Thread

    Rome's great orator and writer, source of much that is known about Republican Rome through his inestimable works and letters. ...
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    Cicero's patriotism
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    Author: * Safiria Caesar - 2 Posts on this thread out of 248 Posts sitewide.
    Date: Jan 30, 2007 - 18:58

    Sorry there, but I do have some problems thinking of Cicero as a true patriot!

    Here are some extracts from his oratio Pro Marcello (as ironic as he was when saying/writing it, but still... a bit of coherency and decency!). Ok, it's not concerning Antony, but JC, but still... a good hint as to some of Cicero's selfishness.

    (BTW... in the first line you can read "I cannot by any means pass over in silence"... it really calls for the scene in episode 1 of season 1 when HBO's Cicero says to Pompey: "However, if I might say a few words..." ;-p )

     

    I. For I cannot by any means pass over in silence such great humanity, such unprecedented and unheard-of clemency, such moderation in the exercise of supreme and universal power, such incredible and almost godlike wisdom.

    and now it is clearly understood by everybody, since you (Julius Caesar) have granted Marcus Marcellus to the senate and people of Rome, in spite of your recollection of all the injuries you have received at his hands, that you prefer the authority of this order and the dignity of the republic to the indulgence of your own resentment or your own suspicions.

     

    II. No one is blessed with such a stream of genius, no one is endowed with such vigour and richness of eloquence, either as a speaker or as a writer, as to be able, I will not say to extol, but even, O Caius Caesar, plainly to relate all your achievements. Nevertheless, I assert, and with your leave I maintain, that in all of them you never gained greater and truer glory than you have acquired this day.

     

    III. But to subdue one's inclinations, to master one's angry feelings, to be moderate in the hour of victory, to not merely raise from the ground a prostrate adversary, eminent for noble birth, for genius, and for virtue, but even to increase his previous dignity, --they are actions of such a nature, that the man who does them, I do not compare to the most illustrious man, but I consider equal to God.

     ... But as for you whom we behold present among us, whose mind, and feelings, and countenance, we at this moment see to be such, that you wish to preserve everything which the fortune of war has left to the republic, oh with what praises must we extol you? with what zeal must we follow you? with what affection must we devote ourselves to you! The very walls, I declare, the very walls of this senate-house appear to me eager to return you thanks; because, in a short time, you will have restored their ancient authority to this venerable abode of themselves and of their ancestors.

     

    VII.[21] But now I come to those severe complaints, and to those most terrible suspicions that you have given utterance to; of dangers which should be guarded against not more by you yourself than by all the citizens and most especially by us who have been preserved by you.

     

    VIII. For it has often come to my ears that you are in the habit of using that expression much too frequently--that you have lived long enough for yourself. I dare say you have; but I could only be willing to hear you say so if you lived for yourself alone, or if you had been born for yourself alone. But as it is--as your exploits have brought the safety of all the citizens and the entire republic to a dependence on you

     

    IX Although that spirit of yours has never been content with this narrow space which nature has afforded us to live in; but has always been inflamed with a desire of immortality.

     

    And finally some forecasts by Cicero… (on the whole better than Nostradamus):

    IX (28) Nor is this to be considered your life which is contained in your body and in your breath. That,--that, I say, is your life, which will flourish in the memory of all ages; which posterity will cherish; which eternity itself will always preserve.

     

    IX (29) There will be also among those who shall be born hereafter, as there has been among us, great disputes, when some with their praises will extol your exploits to the skies, and others, perhaps, will miss something in them,--and that, too, the most important thing of all,--unless you extinguish the conflagration of civil war by the safety of the country, so that the one shall appear to have been the effect of destiny and the other the work of your own practical wisdom. Have regard, then, to those judges who will judge you many ages afterwards, and who will very likely judge you more honestly than we can. For their judgment will be unbiased by affection or by ambition, and at the same time it will be untainted by hatred or by envy.

     

    One more thing… Cicero’s predictions are quite right, other than for the last few lines… 2000 years passed and still no impartiality on Caesar.


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