Author: * Moravius Horatius -
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Date: Oct 18, 2004 - 07:05
Salva sis semidiva Heraklia
My, my, such a narrow view of religion and morality. Let's see.
You've never heard, even conceived, of a written moral code for your religion (Ten Commandments, etc.)
As in Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism and all the other illiterate societies? Obviously a written code of conduct is not a requirement for living a moral life.
You've never heard of Jesus Christ (Caesar, of course, had not).
Not by name perhaps, but if you mean a son of a god who died and was resurrected, later to ascend to the heavens as a god himself, then the Romans had heard of plenty. I think about 22 such deities before Christianity appeared. Certainly Caesar had heard of Osiris, and in his travels east as a young man several more. Or were you thinking of the miracle worker? You can read Celsus about his opinion of such claims being any more or less valid than what Romans heard from other traditions. "Are these distinctive happenings unique to Christians, and if so, how are they unique? Or are ours to be accounted myths and theirs believed? What reasons do Christians give for the distinctiveness of their beliefs? In truth there is nothing at all unusual about what the Christians believe, except that they believe it to the exclusion of more comprehensive truth about God."
You've no concept of "heaven" or "hell" and the two being clearly linked to following a given set of moral rules - or not.
As in Judaism? Ten Commandments but no hell, really. At least not a Christian concept of a hell. So you are saying that in order to be moral you must be threatened by a system of reward and punishment? No, a Roman would not conceive of such a childish view of morality. Reward and punishment, judgement of souls, you might take a look at Plato's Myth of Er in the Republic.
You've never heard of any great religion with specified moral rules or coda, so you have to work ethics out on your own, using a few philosophers.
Hm, no credit given to his mother? Are you saying that only Christians, or only those from a Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition can be thought moral, because only traditions with a written moral code have a concept of ethics? Not a novel idea, not among Christians at least. Caesar would have of course been aware of the Monosticha Catonis, and have had access to similar letters of fathers to their sons. The Twelve Tablets can be compared to your Ten Commandments, written in bronze rather than stone, and yes, Caesar did have a number of philosophers to refer to on ethical guidence, the same philosophers, I might point out, who taught the church fathers their ethics. Even Paul, your earliest Christian author, quotes directly from the philosophers, and then when you get to Augustinus or Origin, Christian thinkers were Classically trained in the philosophy and ethics of non-Christians.
One of the things I find most odd about Christian thinking is the idea that they are "forgiven". How is that the basis of a moral system, that you can do whatever you want, because in the end you can be forgiven of your misdeeds, or as some put it, they can do whatever they want because they were already "saved" and forgiven their sins in advance? I suppose that is an outgrowth of the Christian idea that morality is based on fear of punishment. Personally I do not find coercion as a valid basis of morality. And the idea that you can avoid punishment through forgiveness does not lend your morality a solid footing.
Betcha can't do it?!
Not being a Christian, I bet I can.
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