Author: * Thiudareiks Gunthigg -
13 Posts
on this thread out of
544 Posts
sitewide.
Date: Sep 27, 2002 - 17:53
Heraklia wrote:
many Germanic tribes settled in the former Roman province of Britannia (with its indigenous Romano-Celtic peoples), they brought their culture, religion and language into a long-existing different culture, religion and language; and like all good mergers, over time they became something less than German and more than German by virtue of the British lands they became natives of.
I agree with all the above (apart from the use of the word "German" instead of the correct word Germanic - there is an very important difference, which is why I keep banging on about it). Theodric mentioned Penda's Celtic name, and there are other examples - such as the name of Cerdic and the title Bretwalda - which indicate a Celtic influence on the newcomers. There were clear Roman influences as well, such as on the design of many of the items in the Sutton Hoo panoply.
But Theodric is also correct in pointing out that the peoples we refer to as the Anglo-Saxons were fundamentally Germanic and knew it.
Otherwise, why on earth fight so hard for "England" against the Vikings, par example?
Eh? I don't get this at all. Surely they fought so hard against the Vikings because the Vikings were trying to rob them, kill them and take their land. I don't think they would have fought any less hard if there had been no influence on them by the Celts and Romans rather than a bit of influence.
I don't get what you are arguing here.
Alfred viewed himself totally as a king of English, not German, subjects in only a few short centuries.
Since "German" means a citizen of the modern nation of Germany, I think it's unlikely that he would have thought of himself as "German" (I will continue to bang on about that every time it comes up - be warned *g*). If you mean "Germanic", then to say he thought of himself as English rather than Germanic is a contradiction in terms. Alfred actually probably saw himself as a West Saxon first and foremost, though he would have seen Wessex as a kingdom of the Angelcynn, as the people of these various English kingdoms had a sense of a common bond due to a common heritage and (generally) shared language. He would also have recognised a cultural and more distant linguistic link to peoples in Denmark and northern Germany, as people of Alfred's day remembered their continental origins and maintained links with the people on the other side of the North Sea.
I don't see a lot of evidence that any Celtic or sub-Roman influence made Alfred think of himself as being different to his Germanic ancestors or to his Continental Germanic cousins. His Christianity would have been a much more significant point of difference for him than any vague influence from Celtic or Roman Britain.
But perhaps we should be having this discussion on Angelcynn itself.
Cheers,
Thiu
|