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Theudokuntho - Germania: 100 BCE-300 CE
The history, culture and language of the Early Germanics from their first contacts with the Meditarrenean cultures to the end of the Second Century CE.

Arminius (1 threads, 26 posts)
    The Man and the Myth (21 posts)
    Historical Thread 0 Featured September 2 , 2003

    There are heaps of books and movies dealing with the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest and Arminius and his Germanic and Roman opponents - fiction as well as non-fiction. Let's create a pool of recommendations what to read and what to watch and why - or why not! ...
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    Good one, Thiudareiks!
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    Author: * Ahtaswintha Chattian - 4 Posts on this thread out of 107 Posts sitewide.
    Date: Sep 1, 2003 - 09:34

    Taking into account that you're fighting with a low bandwidth internet access, this is a tremendous work you have been doing today! Thank you very much!

    According to my understanding of our "gramscussion" today, I don't think our opinions differ that much as it might appear at first sight.

    I am also quite sure that Dieter Timpe's opinion doesn't differ much from other studies; yet, his research is virtually the first thoroughly philological, historical and hermeneutic study on the source texts concerning this topic like Dio, Tacitus, Florus and Velleius.

    By the way, Timpe never claimed the tribes being completely disarmed - he is pointing to a well-known Roman military tradition of accepting defeated enemy forces into their army. Those who refute that for this particular case should prove why the Romans should have swerved from common and usual procedure (proved effective in centuries) this time and put their own case at the stake - especially when dealing with a population that resembled a particular danger for them, the furor Teutonicus.

    Due to their frequent raids, the Germani were assumed to be savages. To civilize them (the Roman way) was a must. And the excavations at Waldgirmes are telling a clear story about Augustus' and his legati's attempts to civilize the tribes within the Germania as a means to ban and end this danger. This is also backed by Dio's account.

    The clades Variana is certainly the result of a failing Roman provincial policy - but I am pretty convinced that a thoroughly planned and highly effective rebellion like this was an "internal army affair" in the beginning, a conspiracy of very few and very high officers among the auxiliaries, with only very few tribal nobles outside (if necessary!) cooperating (for example family/clan members), not some sort of resistance or freedom movement. There was no Germanic identity at that time.

    Claiming a liberation movement or anything alike is but projecting very recent ideas of liberty and national autonomy on ancient cultures. And besides, Arminius would have been a moron, if, being the mind of this amazing plot, he had had no plans for the vacuum of power after the defeat. ;o)


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