Cairetw,

I would like in brief to state my short brainstorm regarding a matter that still concerns me: What is the relationship between the Pythagorean and Orphic doctrine? Or better I can speak the most general question: What the relationship of philosophy and religion? Good debate I believe!J

Pythagoreans in their religious and occult side could present numerous common elements with the Orphism cult. Herodotus stated that, in the early 6^th century BCE the Orphic-Dionysus’ Thiasoi were already established in south Italy and Sicily. We can conclude that the Pythagoreans were familiar and had relationship with the Orphic cult. Although, it is not only the common area of existence of the two ideologies is a fact of association between them.

The initiation to occult liturgies, believe to the immortality of soul, the dogma of reincarnation, the abandoning of specified food and the purification of the human soul and body were mutual in both theories. In addition, Pythagoras was considered as one of the authors of works, which later were published as works of Orpheus. On the other hand, numerous of the Pythagorean texts were initially Orphic.

Although differences existed: Orphism supported their teachings and liturgical procedures in texts and holly books. On the contrary Pythagoreans tried not to use the writing language. Pythagoreans were organized as groups and some times the constructed heresies and religion cults. Orphism was more set as individual based cult. Orphism had never accepted science as one of its divine works.

We can briefly conclude that is correct and mostly accepted that Pythagoreans and Orphism were two different spiritual movements although continually adopted elements from each other.

Yours,

Nikolaos Cleomenes