Hi logicon and thanks for welcoming me to the group.

Here are just a few thoughts to what you said:

Regarding texts: yes I agree whole heartedly that texts that are not christian have survived, for example much of the Roman Emperor Julian's work has survived, even though he was an adamant Pagan (He followed Constantine, the "first christian Emperor" and revoked many of his edicts, took money from churches to rebuild temples, etc). However I think it is important to consider why articles have been preserved (in the case of Julian, because his work was well written and letters between himself and his tutor were used as exersises in language and good argument). Since so much philosophy has not survived to present day, I find it is interesting to question why specific texts did, particularly those in entirety rather than fragments or passages. We know names of philosophers, and nothing of their philosophy. Or small tantalising fragments, from unknown thinkers. I believe that although a lot of work has survived which is rather unchristian as the church grew in power it certainly helps to have theories which relate well to Christianity. In some circles Plato was considered to be a Pagan prophet (as with Aristotle and Virgil).

Personal responsibility and ideal demands are definitely very important as the underlying message to the Republic. I'm glad you brought that up. Moderation is the key, I believe (well in combination with knowledge, wisdom and courage ie the four virtues). I think it will be important to discuss it further. It does seem to be an underlying part of greek philosophy, ie "know thyself" and "everything in moderation" on the temple of Apollo at Delphi.

Finally towards political correctness: there are many aspects of the republic that seem shocking to the modern day world, eg eugenics, destruction of the weak, and lotteries for sexual relationships. Plato does emphasise that the society is formed for the ultimate good of the population rather than the ultimate good of the individual, and that must be considered. I don't agree personally with a lot of Plato's rules and ideas, but I think we should examine why these were written, how it reflects on both the individual and the community, and what it tells us about the culture of Athens at the time, and also about our culture. I hope we can focus on these ideas individually.

I really appreciated your comments and they gave me quite a lot to think about. I'm going to post some general thoughts for book 1 of the republic, but please help me out.

thanks Logicon